Nice to meet you Fleming, thank you for coming on as our third ChainChat guest! With ChainChat, each guest leaves a question for the next guest, so Lana Dingwall is asking you: What would you build in Web3 if you knew it couldn’t fail?

Can I answer that by saying OK, first of all, being an African, a Nigerian, we do not have the opportunity for our stories to be out there, and most of our stories are quite legendary. Personally, I’ve invested a lot in my professional development. In reference to Web3, I think I’d use our history and stories because I feel like they are culturally relevant and these stories need to be told over and over again. 

Agreed.

This way, we can inspire kids from here to take part, they are the future of this technology, you know. Why sit around trees and fires listening to stories anymore, when we can send these messages through video games, Web3 and the Metaverse where the kids are mostly these days?

For example, look at Greek mythology, I learned about it by playing God of War, and I believe this same concept, about learning through video games, can also be applied to learning about African history, which as a black African man I believe can be very useful. 

For Web3, I’d build a platform where stories about Africa can be portrayed, possibly through video games.

Nice idea! Is your interest in Blockchain personal or professional?

Both actually. On a personal level, my interest in Blockchain and cryptocurrency and all that started because I’ve always been interested in what the future holds from a technology standpoint, then I saw we needed more hands on deck from a diversity perspective. On a professional level, I’m a copywriter, you’ve seen me online.

(Inaudible)

Sorry, the last part cut out a little bit. You said, “On a professional level…?”

Yeah as I copywriter I mainly use LinkedIn. Currently, I’m learning more about blockchain technology, Decentralized Apps, and cryptocurrency to enhance my writing because my niche is very specific, I’m not a broader copywriter you just have to look at my profile to see my sole focus is Web3 technology, I’m all about that. Previously I worked as a social media content creator and as a copywriter. So basically, I’m a blockchain copywriter, I can write the copy for DeFi, Apps, protocols, and things like that.

And what have you been doing recently?

I’ve been signing up for all sorts of courses to widen my knowledge in the area.

Cool! What challenges do you find in regard to learning more or doing more?

Racial inclusion is a big challenge for me, I’d say. I’m not saying this to pass judgment on anybody, but racial diversity has been a big problem. First of all, being an African, or I don’t know really if it’s about being a Nigerian. I’m a freelancer on Upwork and actually, it seems easy at first to get a contract or a gig, and then as soon as the client finds out that I’m Nigerian, they straight away think “Oh, a scammer.” So some clients think like that and I have to tell them “Look, that’s not how it’s done, you don’t just judge us like that.”

I will add of course that this is not everybody, but it’s frustrating. So yeah, overall, I believe racial diversity, or the lack of it, is one of the biggest challenges. But we are conquering that step by step.

Yes, you have it doubly tough due to racist and geographical, or well, xenophobic biases.

What’s been your greatest resource? What did you learn from and where? Websites, Twitter…

My greatest resource, this was 2017, let me give you a short story about how it all started. OK?

Yeah, yeah, of course!

Thank you very much. So 2017, I finished high school, and I was waiting to be accepted to university, which is when I started thinking What should I do? What’s my plan? The opportunity presented itself through a friend who was into cryptocurrency and suggested I start trading in crypto. I wasn’t really sure how to go about it so in the end, I paid for a course, a WhatsApp course on crypto trading. It was a bit difficult to understand all the technicalities at first in this space, understanding the technical side of the market. I kept going deeper and deeper, looking at analyses, and then I thought I was ready to start my trading journey. In 2019, I started writing about it, I’d watched videos on Twitter about things such as how to use Upwork and leverage my copywriting career. I saw an opportunity to piece crypto trading and copywriting together and make a name for myself.

I’ve also used Udemy and Coursera to learn more. Currently, I’m doing one actually on Coursera on Project Management, that’s still in progress at the moment. But as another resource, even just conversations with people. Recently I started taking an interest in conferences where I can mix and talk with real people, blockchain developers, tech bros etcetera. We all sit together to talk about blockchain technology. Ways we can help. Ways they can help us here in Africa. I think — no, I know — conversations like that have been very useful. One of the latest topics was about signature wallets, so sitting and actually having a chat with people have been useful to learn more. LinkedIn too!

Perfect, another question for you — What do you wish you’d known sooner?

I wish I’d known it was going to be so real because if I’d looked into it back in 2013, I know my knowledge would be wider than this. I like to make reference to the Bitcoin pizza, I wish I’d known there would have been this future that stems from that, it just seemed so trivial at the time.

So out of my own curiosity, in Nigeria is there a lot of interest in blockchain? Is it something you and your friends talk about?

I’d say in general Nigerians are not so exposed, I come from a humble background and we are really looking for ways to be heard. We should be known for something. In my own friends, I look for a common interest. The friends I have around me are the type of people who have an interest in this technology.

Sorry, the last part cut out again, it might be my internet. Going back to something you said before, which I found interesting — when people go to hire you and they realize you’re in Nigeria you seem to have some setbacks. What recommendations would you give to an employer? I mean, how can they practically become less biased?

This isn’t your fault. Sometimes, these contractors or employers don’t actually read our profiles on Upwork or LinkedIn. If they did, they’d see our experience and the jobs we have completed instantly. I try to ask those finished contracts to leave some feedback or a recommendation so that when somebody finds out I’m in Nigeria and they don’t want to give me a job I can say, “Read my profile, read my recommendations.” I think clients should actually read their candidate’s profile. That’s how you know someone is real. 

On Upwork, I’m a verified freelancer, you have to use your official credentials. I cannot be a scammer using my national ID. It’s easy to pick me out. My identity is out there, which certainly means I’m legit. I’d like to advertise Nigerians and Africans in general to hirers because I believe that when it comes to this technology actually we are extremely good at it.

It would be nice for people to go a little bit deeper than just the surface. A couple more questions then. When did you learn your most important lesson about diversity in your professional life?

It’s not just between Africans and other continents of the world, even here between the north and south of the country, (inaudible) I’ve actually been denied a job because I’m not from the right part of the country. Others, fortunately, see I’m the right fit for the job and give it to me regardless of where I’m from. I’ve moved within the country you see, and when I see those divides breaking down, well that pushes me every day to want to do more, and try to make friendships or relationships with these people. By accommodating them, they accommodate me, and vice versa. 

Anything else you want to share? Experiences, insights, advice for people who are starting to learn, or for your fellow countrypeople? 

A few. For developers and founders of blockchain firms, tokens, and these things, recently there have been so many scams on cryptocurrencies because of a lack of preparation. I’d say if you have an idea for a blockchain project or an NFT, creating the product is not the first thing. So many firms rush into that, (inaudible) with no preparation at all. There was one with a basketballer, Akutars, the smart contract was faulty, and the project lost about $400 million. They were rushing to get money from investors and didn’t prepare properly, I have some info about it on my LinkedIn page. My advice is don’t rush into creating the token, build your team first, and the token last. And don’t hide facts — transparency is at the center of blockchain technology.

My second piece of advice goes out to Nigerians, to Africans in general too. I’ve met a lot of clients who have accepted me and have actually enjoyed my presence, even though I was black, even though I was Nigerian. For example, I was amazed that you and I made a connection on LinkedIn and you said you had read one of my posts and messaged me. I think this is a step in the right direction to breaking down barriers in Blockchain. I’m giving a five-star rating to Diversity in Blockchain, the work you’re doing it’s really amazing. So let’s do things like this more. Bring everybody from every race together, and talk about diversity. The future belongs to all of us. My advice to journalists, bloggers, developers, to everybody who can — bring all of us on board. There’s a lot of talent out there that you are not searching for and you are not finding. Look outside your usual circles.

Thank you for that. Ah, here we go again, that connection problem. It’s nice to hear good feedback. Just the last one then, is can you leave a question for our next guest?

Ok, aside from finance, how do you think blockchain technology can have an impact?

Perfect! I like this, everybody thinks of supply chains and charitable giving but there are so many applications. It will be interesting to see what the next ChainChatter says!

Thank you so much, Fleming!

You guys are wonderful.

We will keep doing what we’re doing, and this conversation just proves how worthwhile it is what we are doing. So thank you.